Steelcitygrit [in exile]

Ruminating on all things Canadian and political.

 

Friday, April 07, 2006

Prentice Needs a Constitutional Refresher

It had appeared, over the past two weeks, that the Federal Government was reluctantly recognizing the singular role it must play in ending the Caledonian standoff. It is thus with great disapointment that I find it returning to its initial imbecilica:
Deirdre McCracken, a spokesperson for Minister of Indian Affairs Jim Prentice, said yesterday the blockade "has nothing to do with the federal government."

Section 91 of the BNA Act, 1867:

...it is hereby declared that (notwithstanding anything in this Act) the exclusive Legislative Authority of the Parliament of Canada extends to all Matters coming within the Classes of Subjects next hereinafter enumerated; that is to say:

(24) Indians, and the lands reserved for the Indians.

But Jim Prentice is prepared for this criticism. McCracken continues:
"This isn't a lands-claim matter. The actual root of the problem is not a land claim."

That assertion took me by surprise, and I imagine it would have suprised the Six Nations protestors as well.

Ask spokeswoman Janie Jamieson why she is there:

"It is our territory," said Jamieson. "Just because it has passed title illegally throughout the years doesn't mean that it isn't ours."

That sounds like a land claim to me. But lending a moment's attention to those that have suspended their lives and abandoned all comfort for over a month is something that Jim Prentice is not willing to do. Fortunately, he doesn't have to. He doesn't even need to leave his office. He needs only ask any Indian Affairs bureaucrat why the Caledonian issue has arisen. They will tell him that the development is part of a land claims suit filed in 1995 - one that has yet met no resolution.

The Federal Government's role in this exercise is simply not open to debate.

17 Comments:

Blogger SteelCityGrit said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4:29 PM  
Blogger SteelCityGrit said...

Is extinguishing a legal land ownership document legitimate when it is no longer convenient? Is our federal government able to circumvent the law if those affected are unable to mount a loud enough protest? Are we willing to set a precedent under which the rule of law is applied selectively to those with the least amount power and governmental influence? If that is the case, then you aren't embarassing yourself by reducing this blockade to an issue of "law and order." If it isn't, then please admit that this issue is far more nuanced.

I think, given the torturous recent history and continued tribulations faced by the First Nations people, your wanting to protect politicians from 'unpleasantness' is rather remarkable. If we aren't willing to open up debate, then we aren't serious about reaching any sort of long-term solutions. Keeping 'mum' is about the worst thing we can do.

4:29 PM

6:16 PM  
Blogger SteelCityGrit said...

Sorry friend, you need to have some factual basis. I understood your original assertion that "those dern Natives can get away with murder - I wish we had it so good" (an interesting assertion, given that Natives are incarcerated at 7 times the provincial rate in a good year... but I digress). It's not enough to say that I'm wrong about legal documents being extinguished - you need to substantiate your argument. You didn't, because you can't. You are wrong. Period. When the Six (at that time, Five) Nations came North to Ontario, they signed onto a land ownership document that guaranteed a vast portion of South-Central Ontario (I've linked to a map of the original land owned by the Six Nations somewhere else on this blog if you are curious). Just so there is no confusion, that document held the same legal weight as any land ownership document you can imagine today. Half of the land was revoked almoste immediately, without any sales transaction. This sort of activity has continued ever since. The Six Nations Reserve now occupies about 5% of the land originally owned. So yes, legal land ownership has been illegal revoked. And yes, the federal government did circumvent the law.
So I actually have no "problems I need to deal with." You have one, rather major one. In a debate, you need to provide substance. What you can't do is create a fantasy world based on what you don't know. Something to remember next time if you are going to engage me (or anyone) in debate.

8:44 PM  
Blogger SteelCityGrit said...

Here's one quote, from www.greatcanadianrivers.com (it's the first thing that came up on google and I'm not about to waste any more of my time teaching you Canadian History 101):

"When their Mohawk leader, Joseph Brant, appealed to King George III for assistance, the grateful monarch made an unprecedented offer: six miles of land on either side of the Grand River, in the wilderness of Upper Canada.

Brant weighed his options, and accepted the offer. In 1785, he and his people moved north, settling into a land tract that extended, according to government surveyors, from the mouth of the Grand to a point just south of present-day Fergus. The massive tract was known as the Haldimand Deed, and covered almost 300,000 square hectares."

Follow this link to see that land represented on a map:
http://www.sixnations.ca/LCMap.pdf

So there are some references for you. If you aren't satisfied, research The Haldimand Deed (or the Haldimand Proclamation) on your own.

I have this sneaking suspicion I'm locked in mortal struggle with a 14 year old schoolboy. If that's the case, then I applaud you, young man,for taking an early interest in this great country of ours.

But if you are going to toss some sass around, please (for the love of God) write what you know.

I won't waste any more time on this.

10:45 PM  
Blogger Steve said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

10:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Decoin-There was no federal government in 1785.

8:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

decoin - you don't know when you've been beaten. I am a constitutional law student and I or any of my ilk can tell you that the Haldimand Deed is - in fact - a land ownership document. It was signed by the Monarch of the time and Joseph Brant (the leader of the Five Nations). It isn't the sort of deed that one would sign today, but land ownership doesn't just disapear over time.

8:33 PM  
Blogger SteelCityGrit said...

Sorry friend. I appreciate your persistence. I just feel like you may not be that familiar with the facts in this particular case. If you went digging, you wouldn't have found the sort of deed that you would present to a Land Titles Office in 2006. Perhaps this is where your confusion arises. What you would've found is a unique arrangement - where land is guaranteed to a collective, rather than an individual. This was a trust entered into by the British Crown, and later conferred upon our Federal government. There are very few people in any camp (right/left, government/First Nations) that would attempt to interpret this as other than a land ownership document.

8:48 PM  
Blogger SteelCityGrit said...

An interesting development here. Decoin says "The debate arises from SCG's view that certain members of Canadian society are entitled to maintain illegal blockades without incurring consequences under the law."

Allow me to quote the post upon which you have been responding:

"It had appeared, over the past two weeks, that the Federal Government was reluctantly recognizing the singular role it must play in ending the Caledonian standoff."

This entire thread begun with my discussion of how this occupation should end. What I took issue with was your reductionist encapsulation of the issue.

At no point did I assert that what is preferrable here is that the occupation be allowed to continue. What I suggested is that we should end it in such a way that we don't sow the seeds of the next occupation i.e. we address some of the underlying issues. I thought that was pretty rational stuff. But perhaps I'm mistaken?

9:06 AM  
Blogger SteelCityGrit said...

In defense of anonymous, Governor Haldimand was the King's representative, yes? He signed on the King's behalf? If we were going to be nitpicky with details, I would've pointed out the abusrdity of your looking for a document "signed by the federal government" in 1785... or your looking for a document that I could "present... to the Land Titles Office...". Or maybe I'd point out the a. nonsensical string of words, and b. betrayal of your lack of knowledge when you assert that "The Deed indicated certain Mohawks could have the use as a retreat of lands within a certain distance of the Grand River" (i. huh? ii. The Six Nations is called the SIX NATIONS because it is not a Mohawk Reserve - it is a Reserve for Mohawks, Oneidas, Onondagas, Cayugas, Senecas, and Tuscaroras iii. retreat? retreat from what?)

But I didn't point any of that out. He he.

9:15 AM  
Blogger SteelCityGrit said...

"Governor General Sir Frederick Haldimand had no choice but to purchase tracts of land, in the name of the Crown, from the native people. Haldimand was acting in accordance with British policy laid down under the Royal Proclamation of 1763, which specified that the natives of British North America were legal owners of their tribal lands. Private individuals were not allowed to buy land directly from the natives; only the government could arrange for land purchases."

6:34 PM  
Blogger SteelCityGrit said...

One simple question: Why did Haldimand and subsequent government representatives purchase portions of the land from the Six Nations if the Six Nations never owned that land? As you know, the contention is that much of the land was purchased, but the terms of those purchases were not met (rendering those contract sales void). Everyone is in agreement that the Crown, and later the Federal Government, at least nominally participated in a purchasing process. Now why would they be purchasing something that they already owned? And why would they offer compensation (which they didn't deliver on - to be clear) to the Six Nations if the Six Nations had no legal claim to that land? That's what is known as a logical check mate.

6:40 PM  
Blogger SteelCityGrit said...

Secondarily, you say that even if you were to concede that the land does legally belong to the Six Nations, you think they should be thrown off it with all necessary force. Here you have completely abandoned your argument for consistent application of the law. I have to believe that you believe as passionately as I do about the rule of law. But you're missing a rather glaring inconsistency.

6:43 PM  
Blogger SteelCityGrit said...

And you are criticizing me for advocating expediency over a proper resolution?!? When your perscription to solve the blockade is busting some skulls and then throwing bricks of cash willy-nilly? Good gracious, son.

6:44 PM  
Blogger SteelCityGrit said...

In response to a decoin comment that you don't see here:

- when you disparage an entire people and use the language of ignorance/hate your comments WILL NOT EVER be published on SCG. This is a forum for discussion and you have reduced it to something far worse. Furthermore, you will no longer be welcome on the comment section if this is what we can expect from you.

- The Royal Proclamation (a constitutional document) gave land title rights to "reserve" treaties signed over to First Nations. You had read the Haldimand Treaty and opined that it didn't constitute a legal land ownership doctrine. I conceded that it wasn't immediately evident, so I provided the explanation for why it is. Is that so difficult to understand? Or are you flailing in desperation, having your arguments demolished time and again?

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